[Ben Abrams]

sypher, on Aug 8 2006, 03:43 AM, said:

Of course theres gonna be some business startups out there who are ran by teenagers just like there will be freelancers who are great web designers.

jon, on Aug 8 2006, 12:59 PM, said:

So really, your conclusion is that you should take a good look into every web design company or freelancer you consider using, as you can assume nothing regarding their competance?

just because there is a business / freelancer doesnt make this person good at what they say they do. so yes, all have the potencial to be crooks

[James Mitchell]

I have to agree that you should always investigate people with whom you are about to spend money with, not just web companies/freelancers.

I have been on both sides of that coin. I started out as strictly a freelancer. As I have learned and grew in my knowledge I have created a company with a fellow freelancer. Even though we are a company we are not doing it full time as we can't afford to do it yet. So we are two freelancers operating as a unified company. So presently its the best of both worlds.

[Daniela]

Well, I it on the fence on this.

I started off as a hobby and then did this as a business and then gave up. Why?

Clients were the main problem. Everyone wants a website but is not willing to pay a reasonable price for a good website. So I now feel no mercy or compassion for those people who have a crappy or poor website as far as I am concerned it is their problem.

Also people need to take responsibility. If they have no idea who they are hosting with and have no back up files or their domains expire its their problem. Not the web designers! Why? Because if you run a business you should know everything you need to know about your website, domain and hosting, so if the designer goes AWOL the client can then go with this info to a new designer. Most businesses have their logo saved somewhere, as they will require it for future print jobs, so you would expect them to do the same about their website. I always give my clients half a dozen back up copies of their site, logos, login details, host and domain details etc. Some store them safely, some just chuck them somewhere, and come back to me each time they require something (free of charge of course).

I offered my clients a full service of hosting, looking after the domains etc. But some clients are such "scatterbrains" that they have mislaid the documents or when they got the letters/emails for hosting/domain renewals and/or do not reply to my emails, text or phone calls that it just frustrates me and irritates me if once they have discovered the site is gone that it then is my fault. They want instant updates (free of charge of course). Always hinting they will go elsewhere if they do not get instant service. (Took me a while to learn to distance myself from my designed websites and not care if someone does a bodge job of them.)

So I left the business arena of website design, too much hassle than its worth. Plus all the really poor hobbyists building websites and clients being quite happy to have their sites designed by relatives. I am only keeping those clients which pay me and react to my messages to pay for renewals. All the rest can go and find a new designer. I was sick and tired of the constant quibbling of the service and the client trying to squeeze out more and more from me and then when it came to pay I was the last one on their list. So I soon learned to keep it on a pre-payment contract only. Plus all those clients promising more business from them as referrals. The minute they mention that I know it will go pants. Its the clients who do not ask for extras who will refer your services.

So currently I design sites for my own business and hobbies and the odd client (personal referrals only). My prices are on my website design site and people told me I am too expensive. Well, that is not my problem as it is a hobby again and no longer my main business.

Hobbyist can probably never be as good as professional designers as the hobbyist has other things going on in their lives. However I am a lot better than some of those self styled experts out there.

I think to make the industry more professional it needs some sort of recognised training and this needs to be marketed on to the general public. We know of all the accessibility logos and what they mean. But most potential clients out there do not have a clue. A lot of website design companies out there outsource their designs to designers in Asia or Russia or even now the Middle East or they use templates and one can tell by looking at their portfolios.

I believe there are too many hobby designers out there making business hard for the real professionals. Would I take my car to a hobby repair service? Nope! So why are people/companies willing to put their business on the line online? However with website design moving forwards and becoming more code heavy again with CSS, PHP etc, we will see less people taking it on as a hobby. A lot of people have problems using Dreamweaver et all because of the complexity of the software. So things might sort itself out eventually?

Another thing which irritates me is how a client dares to put a value on a designers skills. I mean they do not know the time and hours spent on a website to get it just right. The hobby designers charging £50 per website are just kidding their clients (who I guess have no clue to the design of sites, seo, accessibility etc)and are hurting the real designers out there.

If I were to hire a designer I would look first at the stuff they have produced and then on the price tag. Most people do it the other way around. And I would ask the people who have a good site who designed it for them.

There are hobby designers out there who have high ethics and good customer care skills, however the client going with them should be prepared that they are taking a risk if the designer goes AWOL. But hey, that is their problem right, as they are willing to take that risk?!

This post has been edited by Daniela: 28 August 2006 - 07:00 AM

[marcamos]

Great first post, welcome to Web Radiance Daniela.

Sadly, all the things you describe are common in the "my own development business" arena. I experience those very same things from time to time. I haven't yet thought of giving up because I still enjoy the good clients more than I dislike the bad ones. I have developed, early on, a resistance to those "potentials" who seem flaky and I just flake them off my client list.

Either way, I'd like to see your own site. Your writing shows you have experience in this aspect of the industry, and I'm certain many of us can learn from your site and your past experiences.

[James Mitchell]

That was certainly a great post Daniela. Very true and to the point.

I too as a part time designer have started being "client picky". Only taking those clients who are involved with their own projects. As I found their responsiveness to be more conducive to working with me. Granted there is still a suprise bad apple every now and then, but that number is dwindling as I have tightened my reigns.

[howtodress123]

If someone paid me to make a website for them while I was a hobbyist, and I created the site for them, and did everything they required of me and paid me to do. When I was done, I would consider the contract closed and completed. So if they couldn't get a hold of me in a few years when they want to make a change, I don't think I would feel too bad about it.

How To Dress For Your Body Shape

This post has been edited by howtodress123: 22 August 2011 - 09:33 AM

[jim1234]

Agree with you Sypher